Preamble

The House—after the Adjournment on Thursday, 5th September—met at a Quarter before Three of the Clock, Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.

NEW WRITS.

For the borough of Manchester (Exchange Division) in the room of Lieut. Peter Thorp Eckersley killed on active service.

For the borough of Preston, in the room of Adrian Charles Moreing, Esquire, deceased.—[Captain Margesson.]

PRIVATE BUSINESS.

Clyde Lighthouses Consolidation Order Confirmation Bill. [By Order.]

Read the Third time, and passed.

Oral Answers to Questions — COMPANY LAW (BERNALESE GROUP).

Mr. Bellenger: asked the President of the Board of Trade whether the investigation into the affairs of the Bernales group has disclosed any infringement of company law; and whether, as the activities of these mining companies are of importance to the investing public both at home and in the Dominions, he will make a public statement?

The President of the Board of Trade (Sir Andrew Duncan): I am not in a position to make any public statement on this matter at present, beyond saying that I have been in communication with the directors of the companies concerned, who have informed me that copies of the inspector's reports will be made available to the shareholders.

Mr. Bellenger: Are not these reports to be made public property? I 7understood it was undertaken by a Government inspector, and, therefore, it should be made available to the general public.

Sir A. Duncan: I hope I shall not be pressed to make any elaboration of my answer. The reports will be made available for shareholders and, at the same time, may also be made available to the public.

Mr. Bellenger: I do not want to press the right hon. Gentleman unduly, but will he answer the first part of the Question, as to whether this investigation has disclosed any infringement of company law?

Sir A. Duncan: I have already said that I am not in a position to make any public statement on the matter at present.

Oral Answers to Questions — MERCANTILE MARINE (WIRELESS OPERATORS).

Mr. David Adams: asked the Minister of Shipping whether, in order to secure greater safety at sea, he has considered the desirability of requiring that vessels with two wireless operators shall carry three, thus ensuring continuous service?

The Minister of Shipping (Mr. Cross): Yes, Sir. My right hon. Friend the First Lord of the Admiralty and I are now discussing with the interests concerned arrangements on the lines indicated in the Question.

Oral Answers to Questions — CHILDREN'S OVERSEAS RECEP- TION SCHEME.

Mr. Robert Gibson: asked the Under-Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, how many children from Scotland have been finally accepted for evacuation overseas; how many of these were from State-aided schools; how many from non-State-aided schools; how many from elementary and how many from secondary schools; how many from each category have left this country; what are the corresponding figures for England; and what percentage of the total population of school age is covered in each case?

Major Sir James Edmondson (Vice-Chamberlain of the Household): I have been asked to reply to this Question. As the reply involves a table of figures, I will, with the hon. Member's permission, circulate the full answer in the OFFICIAL


REPORT. As regards, however, the number in each category who have left this country, I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given by my hon. Friend to the hon. Member for Farnworth (Mr. Tomlinson) on 20th August.

Number of children whose parents or guardians have been notified that their applications have been approved.
Number of children covered by replies from parents who have completed the necessary formalities. (1)


Scotland.
England and Wales.
Scotland.
England and Wales.


5,622
18,852
Attending:
Attending:


State-aided-schools. (2)
Non-State-aided schools.
State-aided schools. (2)
Non-State-aided schools.


3,657
52
10,431
196


Notes.


(1) These figures necessarily include cases where parents subsequently withdraw their consent.


(2) No distinction is made between elementary and secondary schools, but up to the present 99 per cent. of the Board's selection are from children attending State-aided schools.


(3) Figures are not available to show what percentage of the total population of school age is covered in each case.

Oral Answers to Questions — BRITISH ARMY.

RETIRED OFFICERS (EMOLUMENTS).

Mr. Lyons: asked the Secretary of State for War whether, for the duration of the present war, he will consider a modification of Article 496 of the pay warrant so that retired officers who volunteered and have been accepted for re-employment can receive emoluments of present rank without forfeit of the retired pay they formerly received in respect of their prior period of service?

The Secretary of State for War (Mr. Eden): I do not consider that it would be justifiable or practicable to draw any distinction in this matter between the officer compulsorily recalled and the officer re-employed voluntarily. The provision already made for both classes in Article 496 of the pay warrant results in their receiving 25 per cent. more pay than serving officers of corresponding rank.

Mr. Lyons: In view of the fact that in many Government Departments to-day persons receiving pensions are being reemployed at the full rate, will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider the position?

Mr. Eden: I do not think I can do that, for the reason that I am not pre-

Mr. Gibson: As 5th July seems to be a crucial date with regard to these evacuations, will the Minister find out the significance of that date and why it has been chosen?

Following is the answer:

pared to draw a distinction between those on Reserve who have come back and those who have volunteered to come back.

HOME GUARD.

Mr. R. Gibson: asked the Secretary of State for War how many applicants under 65 years of age for enrolment in the Home Guard have failed on physical grounds to satisfy the medical officers; how many applicants have satisfied the medical officers on grounds of fitness but have been refused the right to serve in the Home Guard because they were over 65 years of age; and whether he will now remove the bar attaching to the upper-age limit for admission to the Home Guard and allow enrolments where the medical officers report the applicants to be fit for special or general duties?

Mr. Eden: There is no medical examination of applicants for enrolment in the Home Guard. As regards the age limit, I would refer my hon. and learned Friend to the answer which I gave him on 13th August.

Mr. Gibson: Will not my right hon. Friend reconsider this matter? Am I to gather from the first part of his answer that it is now possible for men over 65 to enrol in the Home Guard?

Mr. Eden: I think the hon. and learned Gentleman is assuming much too much.

Mr. Gibson: Is there no hope for these men over 65?

Lieut.-Colonel Sir Thomas Moore: asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that a battalion commander in the Home Guard is required to keep seven different accounts and to furnish 10 different returns weekly or monthly and, in effect, to fulfil all the obligations of a Regular Army unit without any staff or machinery to enable him to do so; and what action he proposes to take to rectify this position?

Mr. Eden: Instructions have been issued that work of this kind is to be reduced to a minimum, and battalion commanders are provided with administrative assistants to help them in carrying it out. My hon. and gallant Friend will realise that the amount of administrative work will vary from area to area according to the density of the population and the nature of the duties to be performed, but he may rest assured that the Home Guard authorities are fully alive to the importance of this question, and that every effort will continue to be made to keep down the number of returns.

Sir T. Moore: May I ask, not that the Home Guard authorities should be made aware of this, but that the War Office, which is inevitably the final arbiter on this question, should be made aware of it? In view of the fact that Home Guard battalion commanders are busy men, occupied from day to day with other duties, it is perfectly impossible for them without an adequate accountancy staff to maintain their returns.

Mr. Eden: I fully appreciate that, but I am not sure that the War Office is the final authority. I think if it were, there would not be any paper at all.

Colonel Sir Edward Ruggles-Brise: Does my right hon. Friend realise that unless there is an improvement in the situation, the system will break down? I hope he is aware of that and that, if he is not, he will take this matter seriously.

Mr. Eden: I have been into this matter, and I entirely sympathise with what my hon. and gallant Friend says. It does vary from area to area, and we are trying to secure uniformity so far as conditions permit.

Mr. Mander: asked the Secretary of State for War whether consideration has been given to the altered nature of the duties and organisation of the Home Guard during the coming winter months; and when he expects to be able to make an announcement?

Mr. Eden: I agree with my hon. Friend that winter will necessitate some reconsideration of times and conditions of duty assigned to the Home Guard. I am not prepared to make any further statement in public.

Mr. Mander: Will the right hon. Gentleman undertake to make a statement, in secret perhaps, as to the changes contemplated?

Mr. Eden: I do not know about that.

Mr. Mander: asked the Secretary of State for War whether permission can be granted to zone commanders in the Home Guard to purchase steel helmets for those under their command in areas where special precautions against falling shrapnel are required and where the War Office is unable to provide supplies; and whether he is aware of the special requirements in this connection of certain areas to which his attention has been called?

Mr. Eden: My right hon. Friend the Minister of Supply is taking over any stocks of steel helmets which conform to the War Office specification, including any which had been rejected for minor defects but which are considered to give adequate protection. These had been rejected when stocks were ample for the Regular Forces. Steel helmets are being issued to the Home Guard as rapidly as supplies allow, preference being given to those areas where the military need is judged to be greatest.

Mr. Mander: Is the right hon. Gentleman really satisfied with the very small percentage supplied with steel helmets in certain industrial areas to which his attention has been called?

Sir William Davison: On a point of Order. Is it desirable that these things should be made public?

Mr. Wedgwood: asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that a Major Bisgood sent to Members of Parliament a letter stating that he commanded a battalion of the Home Guard,


criticising the refusal of the War Office to allow the use of regular military titles to area, group, section, etc., commanders of the Home Guard; whether he is aware that the same gentleman, controlling the Isleworth Home Guard, requested the resignation of one of his privates for attending the Osterley training school; and what steps he proposes to take regarding this commander?

Mr. Eden: I am aware of the letter to which my right hon. Friend refers, and it has been pointed out to the writer that, while advocating a formal military system of ranks for the Home Guard, he has himself departed from one of the principles of military discipline in making his representations otherwise than through the normal channels. As regards the second part of the Question, the officer concerned denies that he has dismissed any member of his battalion for attending the Osterley Park School.

Mr. Mathers: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is very strong and widespread support for the point of view expressed by Major Bisgood?

Mr. Eden: I am aware that there are two points of view in this matter as in many other matters.

Mr. De la Bère: Is it not all a question of common sense and good will?

BUSINESS ADVISORY COMMITTEE.

Mr. Lyons: asked the Secretary of State for War whether the recently appointed Business Advisory Committee of the War Office will be empowered to consider and recommend upon any financial system now obtaining in his Department, and in any command, division, or smaller formation, and upon any system of acquisition or settlement now prevailing; whether in any matter of Departmental routine or management in any unit the committee will consider any representations made to it by any person of the establishment and others; and whether the committee, or any member thereof, will visit any formation for the purpose of becoming more fully acquainted therewith and representing thereupon?

Mr. Eden: A sub-committee of the main committee is already in process of visiting Commands for the purpose referred to in the last part of my hon. and learned Friend's Question, and in the course of

visits to Commands they will consider the problems of lower formations also. As regards the rest of the Question, I think that the comprehensive character of the committee's task is clearly indicated in my answer to his Question of 20th August, and I do not think that I can usefully add to that except to say that I have no doubt that the existing machinery will enable useful suggestions made by individual members of the Forces to be brought to the notice of the committee.

Mr. Lyons: What procedure is to be adopted to enable any person in these formations to meet that Committee, if he desires to give it the benefit of his experience?

Mr. Eden: I think I would like to have notice of that, but the general principle is that the Committee will receive information from whatever quarter it may come.

Mr. Lyons: I asked the right hon. Gentleman here the other day the position with regard to Members of Parliament, which was quite satisfactory, but will non-Members be able to make representations direct, or will they have to go through the usual channels?

Mr. Eden: I think I must protect the Committee to some extent, but, generally speaking, any person who has a complaint to make will be able to put it forward.

BROTHERS (SERVICE TOGETHER).

Captain Anstruther-Gray: asked the Secretary of State for War whether the privilege hitherto granted to a serving soldier of claiming that a brother in another unit be transferred so that both may serve together is to he restored?

Mr. Eden: The privilege has not been withdrawn, but during the war it is restricted by such factors as technical qualifications and medical category. During the past few months also, transfers of any kind have been suspended unless specially authorised by the War Office, but a number of transfers to enable brothers to serve with each other have nevertheless been sanctioned, and my hon. and gallant Friend can be sure that we shall do all we can to make them possible.

Mr. George Griffiths: Will the Minister give an opportunity to a man who can neither read nor write to serve in the same regiment as his brother?

EDCATIONAL FACILITIES

Mr. Creech Jones: asked the Secretary of State for War what progress has been made with the Army education scheme; whether the training report will be published; whether its recommendations have been adopted; who will direct the scheme; whether it will concern itself with troops overseas; and what money has been made available for this work?

Mr. Eden: I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer which I gave to my hon. Friend the Member for East Wolverhampton (Mr. Mander) on 5th September. The report in question was not framed with a view to publication, but a pamphlet, a copy of which I will send to my hon. Friend, has been prepared for circulation in the Army and for the information of the representatives of the civilian educational bodies who are assisting us, giving the main substance of the Committee's proposals. Mr. F. W. D. Bendall, a Divisional Inspector of the Board of Education, has now been appointed Director of Education with an appropriate secretariat to supervise the scheme. While the immediate problem is to secure adequate provision for the troops at home during the coming winter, the requirements of the troops overseas are also being considered. The necessary funds have been placed at my disposal for developing the work.

Mr. Creech Jones: Will the Minister say what sum of money has actually been allocated for this purpose?

Mr. Eden: A certain sum of money has been made available for books and other purposes, and perhaps I can send the hon. Gentleman the information.

Mr. Mander: Will the Minister send me a copy of this report?

Mr. Eden: With pleasure.

COURT-MARTIAL (LEGAL AID).

Mr. Lyons: asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in order to make available trained assistance for the accused, he will consider introducing legislation, by amendment of the Army Act or otherwise, so as to apply the effect of the Poor Prisoners' Defence Act to trial by court-martial?

Mr. Eden: A recommendation as to the supply of legal aid for persons tried by

court-martial was made by the Oliver Committee. Consideration was being given to the method of implementing that recommendation, but was interrupted by the outbreak of war. It is, however, the practice to arrange in serious cases wherever possible, both at home and abroad, for legal aid to be given, in the capacity of defending officers, by members of the legal profession serving in His Majesty's Forces, who are now available, and this involves no payment by the defendant.

Mr. Lyons: On this serious matter the right hon. Gentleman realises, of course, that that is not the same thing. In view of the importance of the matter, will he reconsider the recommendation of the committee presided over by Mr. Justice Oliver?

Mr. Eden: There are legal officers serving in the Forces who give their services in this way.

Mr. Lyons: While appreciating the difficulty, will the right hon. Gentleman consider the representation, showing how different it is from what he said might happen?

Mr. Eden: I shall be glad to do so.

Mr. Lawson: May I draw attention to the fact that the Oliver Committee's recommendation was that in all cases where the soldier wished to have legal help he should have it at his disposal?

AUXILIARY TERRITORIAL SERVICE (REORGANISATION).

Mrs. Adamson: asked the Secretary of State for War whether he has now considered the Report of the Select Committee on National Expenditure regarding the Auxiliary Territorial Service; and what steps he intends to take on the proposals submitted?

Mr. Eden: Since the return of the British Expeditionary Force from France the Army Council have at my request been considering reports upon the work of the Auxiliary Territorial Service, in which over 30,000 women are enrolled for military duty of various kinds throughout the Military Commands. All these reports have testified to the keenness and efficiency of the Auxiliary Territorial Service, and also to the great value of the work which it performs. Many suggestions have also been received from the


Director and senior officers of the Auxiliary Territorial Service, from the Military Commands, from important women's organisations, and finally from the Parliamentary Select Committee which issued a report on 21st August.
The general purpose of these suggestions, which have taken many forms, has been to bring the organisation of the Auxiliary Territorial Service, which came into being under very different conditions in September, 1938, into closer conformity with the proved requirements of the present time; to make fuller provision for its welfare and technical efficiency; and finally to raise its numerical strength. The plans for reorganisation, which in some directions affect the Women's Royal Naval Service and the Women's Auxiliary Air Force as well as the Auxiliary Territorial Service, are not yet complete in all respects; but in the meantime various changes have been approved by the Army Council and are being brought into effect at once.

The following are the changes already approved:—

(1) An Auxiliary Territorial Service Council is being formed under the supervision of the Adjutant-General, which will consist of the following officers:

(a)The Director of the Auxiliary Territorial Service—President. The Director is on the staff of the Adjutant-General and will be responsible under him for the administration of the Auxiliary Territorial Service.
(b) A senior Auxiliary Territorial Service officer attached to the staff of the Quartermaster-General, who will deal with clothing, feeding and accommodation of the Auxiliary Territorial Service.
(c) A senior Auxiliary Territorial Service officer attached to the staff of the Director of Military Training, who will be responsible for all branches of training in the Auxiliary Territorial Service.
(d) A woman doctor attached to the staff of the Director-General of Army Medical Services, who will be responsible for the health and general welfare of the Auxiliary Territorial Service.

The Council will deal with all questions of policy in the Service and will be corporately responsible to the Army Council

through the Adjutant-General for its administration in all respects.

(2) A Selection Board for the promotion of Auxiliary Territorial Service officers is also being set up. This Board will consist of the Director, Auxiliary Territorial Service, the Assistant Directors, Auxiliary Territorial Service, in all the Military Commands and, when officers they deal with are under consideration the Auxiliary Territorial Service Inspectors of M.T. Companies and Catering. Confidential reports on all Auxiliary Territorial Service officers are to be rendered to this Board at once. The recommendations of this Board will be subject to confirmation by the Adjutant-General. These will deal with:

(a) Welfare qualifications, interest in the women serving under them, readiness to advise and help.
(b) Administrative qualifications.
(c) Special qualifications, for example, in domestic science, languages, driving, clerical work and business experience.

(3) The normal type of soldier's ration having proved too heavy for women in some respects and deficient for women in other respects, a new scale is being introduced more appropriate to the needs of the Auxiliary Territorial Service.

The main changes are:

(a) A slight reduction in the heavier foods such as meat, bacon and bread.
(b) A supplementary ration of eggs, 50 per cent. extra milk, fruit (fresh when possible), and a higher scale of fresh vegetables.
(c) The supply of a breakfast cereal, a cup of chocolate, and other minor variations of the same kind.

The general purpose of these changes is to bring the Auxiliary Territorial Service under the control of a council consisting of its own director and three senior commandants; to facilitate promotion on the recommendation of immediate superiors with personal knowledge of the officer or member reported upon; to improve technical training; and to provide more fully for the health and welfare of all branches.

Mr. Bellenger: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is some discontent in the ranks of the A.T.S. regarding the


system of selection of members to commissioned rank? Does his statement mean that he is going to make it much more widespread for an opportunity to be given to those serving in the ranks to reach commissioned rank, as is done in the Army?

Mr. Eden: That is exactly what my very long answer implies, among other things.

Sir Ralph Glyn: In view of the very satisfactory reply, can some steps be taken to bring it to the notice of would-be recruits that this reorganisation is taking place, in view of the very great importance of increasing the numbers of the A.T.S.?

Mr. Eden: That is exactly what we have in mind. We are anxious to increase the number of recruits.

Mrs. Adamson: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the public concern with the mismanagement of this Service has been somewhat justified by the reply that he has now given?

Mr. Eden: I do not like to look for motives. I have only tried to obtain results.

Miss Ward: In view of the fact that the satisfactory carrying out of the new recommendations depends on the quality of the personnel who are to carry out the task, may I ask for an assurance that the choice of officers to high and important rank will be very carefully made?

Mr. Eden: All the senior appointments are referred to me.

BILLETING (COUNTRY HOUSES).

Major Sir Jocelyn Lucas: asked the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the announcement that country houses will be used for billeting troops during the winter, the Government will either pay for, or contribute to, the cost of camouflaging such dwelling-houses, or undertake the task themselves, in view of the fact that it is cheaper to safeguard property than to pay for it when destroyed and that it would undoubtedly save many lives?

Mr. Eden: Country houses occupied by troops will be camouflaged, when this is considered necessary, at public expense.

FIELD CASHIERS.

Mr. Quibell: asked the Secretary of State for War how many divisional field cashiers of the British Expeditionary Force evacuated from France returned to this country with all public and private moneys entrusted to them intact; the names of the officers; the designation of their respective divisions; and in what capacity such officers are now employed?

Mr. Eden: I do not think that the information asked for would serve any useful purpose in the public interest. I may say, however, that the great majority of divisional and corps field cashiers were able to return with their public money intact. The fact that some were unable to do so was due to conditions arising from enemy action which were beyond the control of the officers concerned. Field cashiers do not have private moneys entrusted to them in their official capacity.

OFFICERS' ALLOWANCES (ARREARS).

Mr. Liddall: asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will Indicate the steps that can be taken by serving officers to obtain payment of outstanding arrears of allowances which repeated application has failed to recover?

Mr. Eden: The Question involves the assumption that there are a substantial number of cases in which officers have been for some considerable time unable, in spite of repeated applications, to obtain allowances to which they are entitled. It is impossible to deal with generalised assumptions of this nature, which I am not prepared to admit in the absence of concrete evidence. Allegations of this general nature have frequently been made, but when investigated in particular cases have proved in the large majority of cases to be unfounded. If there are any officers who have been unable within a reasonable time to secure payment of allowances to which they are entitled, I should be glad if they would forward their claims with full particulars, through their commanding officers, to the Paymaster-in-Chief, War Office, when they will be dealt with without delay. I should, however, point out that this special procedure should be applied only to cases where payment has been unduly delayed and not to cases where the claim has been already refused as inadmissible.

Mr. Liddall: Is not my right hon. Friend aware that it is quite impossible


for any serving officer to get any reply from Command paymasters or the Army Pay Department?

Mr. Eden: No, Sir; certainly I am not prepared to accept that. I have given a reply, and if my hon. Friend has any specific allegations, perhaps he will bring them to me.

Mr. Liddall: I have submitted a certain number to the War Office, and I am prepared to submit others.

Major Milner: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the system is far worse in this war than it was in the last war 20 years ago, and that nothing has been learned in the interval?

DEDUCTIONS AND ALLOWANCES.

Mr. Glenvil Hall: asked the Secretary of State for War whether, as the weekly stoppages from a soldier's pay are at the rate of 6½d. a week and the new allowances for haircutting, etc., on the other side are 5½d. a week, he will consider the possibility of equating these amounts in order that the time, labour and money at present involved in making these entries on both sides of each man's account can be saved?

Mr. Eden: The deduction of 6½d. a week from a soldier's pay, to which my hon. Friend refers, is a statutory contribution under the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Contributory Pensions Act. Apart from the question of principle, there would be considerable practical disadvantages in setting these deductions off without book entry against the allowance given in respect of haircutting, etc., with which it has no connection. Nor is it likely that the savings, if any, which might result from such a course would approximate to the extra £200,000 a year which the proposal would cost the State for each million men.

ARMED FORCES (DEPENDANTS' ALLOWANCES).

Mr. Dobbie: asked the Secretary of State for War whether he is now able, after his consideration of the position of the wives and dependants of the Armed Forces, to make a statement as to his intention towards the request for raising the payments to the level of 30s. per week for wives and 6s. per week for each child, with a corresponding increase for

other dependants; and, if not able at once to make such a statement, will he be able to make a statement in the near future on the subject?

Mr. Eden: Discussions have been proceeding, and I shall be in a position to make a full announcement at a very early date.

Mr. Dobbie: In view of the extreme urgency of the case, will the right hon. Gentleman give a guarantee that such a statement may be available within the next fortnight or so?

Mr. Eden: I do not like guarantees, but certainly I hope it will be within the next fortnight.

BELGIAN SUBJECT, GOUROCK.

Mr. McGovern: asked the Lord Advocate whether his attention has been drawn to the allegations made by Israel Jakubowicz, a Belgian subject, who was handed over to the police at Gourock after being rescued from the steamship "Volenden," that was torpedoed in the Atlantic, stating that the Gourock police beat him up so badly that he became unconscious; that the police refused to send for a doctor or notify the Belgian Ambassador; that a soldier was brought in with rifle and bayonet and threatened to shoot him as a spy; that he has been released, after inquiry, and is at present in Glasgow; whether he will initiate an independent inquiry into the conduct of the Gourock police; and, in view of the fact that seven other refugee witnesses saw these brutal assaults, suspend from duty meantime the police officials who were responsible?

The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Ernest Brown): This case has been reported to my right hon. Friend the Lord Advocate, and is at present under investigation.

Mr. McGovern: Will the right hon. Gentleman asked his right hon. and learned Friend the Lord Advocate to see that the inquiry is not undertaken by the police, who are accused of the offence?

Mr. Brown: My right hon. Friend will conduct the inquiry in the manner best suited to the public interest and the interests of the persons by whom the allegation is made.

Mr. McGovern: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in past allegations a great deal of trouble has been caused by the police, who were the accused, being asked to undertake the inquiry? Will he see that an independent inquiry is undertaken in order to get at the truth of the matter?

Mr. Brown: I will not add anything to what I have already said, but the remarks of the hon. Member will be brought to the notice of my right hon. and learned Friend.

MOTOR VEHICLE DRIVING LICENCES.

Captain Anstruther-Gray: asked the Minister of Transport whether, with a view to saving time, paper and postage, he will allow local taxation officers to renew driving licences upon verbal or written application in view of the fact that this procedure was followed before the introduction of driving tests, which have now been discontinued?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport (Mr. Montague): My right hon. Friend is not prepared to dispense with the written application for renewal of a driving licence, which is a statutory requirement and provides for a declaration by the applicant that he is free from disqualifications. Incidentally, my hon. and gallant Friend is incorrect in thinking that written application was not required before driving tests were introduced.

Oral Answers to Questions — CIVIL DEFENCE.

INTERNEES.

Mr. Silverman: asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department on what grounds letters to and from internees are subject to censorship; and why letters to and from certain camps still take from 10 days to three weeks to reach their addresses?

The Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Peake): Censorship of these letters is necessary for reasons of security, but steps have been taken recently to reduce the delay involved to the minimum, apart from special action required in certain cases.

Mr. Silverman: Can the hon. Gentleman explain what are the reasons of

security which require the censorship of a letter written by a person in this country to another person in this country?

Mr. Peake: If the hon. Member had listened to the speech of the Home Secretary in the Debate before the Adjournment, he would have seen that there were security considerations involved in the internment of these aliens, and, therefore, there are also security considerations in the question of their correspondence.

Mr. Denville: Is it necessary for six days to be taken for a letter to leave Belfast and arrive in London?

Mr. Peake: That does not arise from this Question.

Mr. Silverman: asked the Home Secretary why newspapers and periodicals sent to internees in the Isle of Man are subject to censorship and, in certain instances, forbidden?

Mr. Peake: The regulations do not permit of newspapers and periodicals being obtained by internees otherwise than from publishers, booksellers or authorised newsagents. If the hon. Member will furnish me with any instances of newspapers or periodicals which internees have not been allowed to obtain through these channels, I will consider the matter.

Mr. Silverman: Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that in a number of instances copies of the OFFICIAL REPORT despatched by the Stationery Office direct to internees have been prevented by the censorship in the camps from reaching the interned persons? Can the hon. Gentleman give any reason why this is so?

Mr. Peake: No, Sir. That is the first I have heard of this, and I will make some inquiries into the matter.

Mr. Silverman: asked the Home Secretary whether he can give an assurance that the Dominion Governments concerned have been furnished with sufficient information to enable them to distinguish, among deported internees, between dangerous enemy aliens and refugees from Nazi oppression?

Mr. Peake: Yes, Sir. Information has been furnished to the Canadian and Australian Governments which enables them to make this distinction.

Mr. Silverman: Does the hon. Gentleman intend the House to understand by


that reply that in every case of an internee sent to a Dominion a full file of papers relating to his case has gone with him?

Mr. Peake: The necessary information to enable the Canadian and Australian Governments to draw this distinction has been forwarded to those Governments, and considerable progress has been made in Canada with the process of segregation.

Mr. Silverman: In the absence of the file relating to the particular individual, what is the information which is furnished to the Dominion Governments to enable them to make this distinction?

Mr. Peake: In relation to large numbers of internees, individual information has been sent already. In regard to other cases of B and C category internees, it is clear on the face of it that they should be treated on a different basis.

Mr. Silverman.: Do the Dominion Governments concerned know this?

Mr. Rhys Davies: asked the Home Secretary whether he will indicate the steps to be taken by internees now in Canada and Australia, falling into the proper categories, to secure their release?

Mr. Peake: In general, the procedure indicated in the White Paper for applying for release applies to internees sent to Canada and Australia. Full information on the subject is being sent to these Dominions and will be available to the internees sent there.

Mr. Riley: Who is responsible for the expense of transporting the internees who desire to return?

Mr. Peake: Where release has been authorised and the alien desires to return to this country, the expenses will be borne by His Majesty's Government.

Mr. Vernon Bartlett: asked the Home Secretary in how many alien refugee internment camps the administration has passed from military to civilian authorities since the Home Office became responsible for the camps on 4th August; and what steps have now been taken to separate anti-Nazi from Nazi internees?

Mr. Peake: The administration of 13 internment camps for aliens was transferred from the War Office to the Home Office on 5th August. It is proposed, as soon as practicable, to collect Nazi sympathisers in one camp, but the number is not expected to be large.

Mr. Lipson: Will that apply to Nazi women sympathisers? Will they be separated?

Mr. Peake: Certain steps have been taken in the Isle of Man in the women's internment camp as far as possible to collect known Nazi sympathisers into a certain quarter of the camp.

Mr. Noel-Baker: Does the hon. Gentleman mean that this segregation has not yet been completed?

Mr. Peake: No, Sir. We have been engaged in collecting from the commandants returns of those who are known to be Nazi sympathisers. As soon as a suitable camp can be found for the number of aliens involved, they will be transferred there.

Mr. Edmund Harvey: asked the Home Secretary the numbers of interned aliens released from internment since the publication of the White Paper, and the numbers still interned; and what further additions to, or enlargements of, the categories approved for release have been made on the recommendations of the Advisory Committee?

Mr. Peake: The latest available statistics show that 2,516 internees who come within one or other of the categories of eligibility have been released. Approximately 17,700 are still interned. Certain further recommendations have been received from the Advisory Committee, and I hope to announce certain extensions of the categories at an early date.

Mr. Silverman: Can the Minister say how many applications for release are still outstanding?

Mr. Peake: I should like to see that Question on the Order Paper.

Mr. G. Strauss: asked the Home Secretary whether arrangements can be made to enable internees, sent to Canada, to correspond with their friends and relatives in this country?

Mr. Peake: My information is that the internees sent to Canada from this country are free to correspond with their friends and relatives in this country, subject to compliance with the camp regulations.

Mr. Strauss: Is the Minister aware that while that may be so theoretically, in practice it takes weeks for recipients this


side to receive letters? Is he further aware that in one case it was two months before parents received any letter from a son who left the country two months ago?

Mr. Peake: The hon. Member will appreciate that a number of different classes of internees were sent to Canada, and a considerable task lay before the Dominion Government in separating them into different internment camps; but mail has been arriving from Canada during the past few weeks.

Mr. Stokes: (by Private Notice) asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that civilian political prisoners have been transferred from Brixton Prison to a military detention camp at Latchmere House, Ham Common, where they are being subjected to inquiry by the military in some cases following their appearance before the Advisory Committee and whether he has any report to make to this House on the matter?

Mr. Peake: This institution is not a military detention camp except in the sense that the commandant and guards are provided by the War Office, as they are at all other internment camps under the management of the Home Office. Latch-mere House is used for the temporary detention of internees in cases where special inquiries have to be made. Persons are not detained there for any length of time, but are brought there for a few days for the purpose of such inquiries as cannot conveniently be made in camps or prison establishments up and down the country.

Mr. Stokes: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that these people have been before the Advisory Committee; and will he explain to the House why they are now handed over to military detention and put in solitary confinement in many cases?

Mr. Peake: I must inform the hon. Member that Latchmere House is used, as I have said, for the temporary accommodation, during short periods, of interned or detained persons who claim to be or are thought to be in possession of information of interest or value to His Majesty's Government. I cannot see anything wrong, in that case in persons visiting Latchmere House even if the cases have been before the Advisory Committee. The Advisory Committee after all is only an advisory committee. Its

purpose is to advise my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, who takes full responsibility for this institution.

AIR-RAID WARNINGS.

Major Milner: asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware of the unsatisfactory working of the present siren warning system; and whether he will ensure such warning being invariably given on the approach of enemy aeroplanes, thus providing for the safety and peace of mind of the general public, including the relatives of industrial workers, whilst in order to avoid undue interference with production arranging for either a special warning signal or factory watchers and warnings to industrial workers if and when actual firing or bomb-dropping begins?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Home Security (Mr. Mabane): No warning system can be infallible, and there must always be some risk of bombs without warning. It is, however, the intention of the Government that the system should be developed on the lines proposed by my hon. Friend, and agreement has been reached with industry on the steps to be taken to this end.

Major Milner: Will the hon. Gentleman tell us what the steps are, and whether any system of second warning has been introduced, and, if so, what is it for?

Mr. Mabane: A full statement appeared in the Press last week, and a pamphlet is in course of being printed, indicating in detail how the system should be developed by employers and employés. It would be difficult within the limits of Question and answer to give a detailed reply.

Mr. A. Bevan: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that there will be some reluctance on the part of workers in factories in some parts of the country to carry out the regulations, in view of the absence of shelter accommodation in the vicinity for their wives and children?

Mr. Mabane: The representatives of employés are in closest touch with the Government, and everything is being done in close consultation with them.

Mr. Bevan: It is not being done.

Mr. Thorne: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that in the last few weeks in the East End the gunfire has been going on before the sirens have been sounded?

Sir Henry Morris-Jones: When does the Minister anticipate that the Home Office will be able to make a clear statement?

Mr. Mabane: A statement has already been made as clearly as possible.

AIR RAID DAMAGE (COMPENSATION).

Sir Irving Albery: (by Private Notice) asked the Minister of Health whether he will issue a short pamphlet describing the assistance which should be available to householders after damage by a bombing raid, and stating to whom application for such assistance should be made: and whether he will instruct local authorities to have these pamphlets distributed in any area concerned immediately after a raid has occurred?

The Minister of Health (Mr. Malcolm MacDonald): A leaflet of this kind is being issued to the local authorities concerned for distribution at emergency rest centres, town halls, etc. I am sending my hon. Friend a copy. I am also glad of the opportunity of thanking my right hon. Friend the Minister of Information, the B.B.C. and the Press for helping to make information on these matters widely known.

Sir I. Albery: Are we to understand that when a raid has occurred, this information will immediately be made directly available, in the district where the raid has occurred, to the persons concerned?

Mr. MacDonald: These leaflets will be made available in all such centres before arty emergency arises so that we anticipate anything that may befall in those localities.

Mr. Lyons: Will the Minister at the same time consider some arrangements for providing some kind of communal feeding where these unfortunate occurrences take place?

Mr. Buchanan: Will that circular apply to Scotland, or has the right hon. Gentleman consulted the Secretary of State for Scotland with regard to the issue of a circular for Scotland as well?

Mr. MacDonald: I am in touch with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Scotland about the matter. I have no doubt that something on similar lines if not exactly the same leaflet, will be issued in the case of Scotland.

MINISTRY OF INFORMATION (REORGANISATION).

Mr. Adamson: asked the Minister of Information the plans of reorganisation within the Ministry as proposed by the new Director General; and whether the proposals will increase efficiency with further reductions of the staff employed; and the financial savings which are likely to arise from these changes?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Information (Mr. Harold Nicolson): As the reply is rather long, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.

Mr. Adamson: Will the hon. Gentleman indicate whether there has been a limitation or an extension of the number of Departments?

Mr. Nicolson: There has been a limitation.

Following is the reply:

The Ministry is being organised in five Departments:

First: that relating to news, photographs, censorship being the continuous day by day work of providing and releasing material for newspapers or radio.

Second: that relating to affairs at Home including in particular public relations, regional administration, home intelligence.

Third: that relating to overseas affairs dealing with the supply of news and information for the Empire, the Americas, and foreign countries generally also countering any misstatement of the enemy.

Fourth: that relating to production —such as films, posters and other publicity, books and pamphlets, exhibitions, the bulk of the work here is in the nature of review and control as it is not intended to undertake production except where other facilities are absent.

Fifth: that relating to general administration such as finance, staff, agreements and arrangements, etc.

In addition, there are two subsidiary divisions, one dealing with the relationship of the Ministry to the B.B.C. and the other dealing with commercial relations in conjunction primarily with the Board of Trade.

In connection with overseas affairs there are offices either in or attached to the missions abroad through which this Department acts.

It is too early yet to say whether the reorganisation is to be regarded as final and satisfactory, but it is hoped by effective co-ordination of the work of the various divisions of the Ministry to secure a more efficient administration of the business. Certain reductions of staff are in progress, and an analysis of the staff of the Ministry in relation to the tasks it has undertaken will be available in about four weeks' time.

ROYAL AIR FORCE (COMMISSIONS).

Sir J. Lucas: asked the Secretary of State for Air whether those young pilots who volunteered before the war, or were accorded short service commissions for four years, are accorded any opportunity to get permanent commissions; and, if not, whether such opportunity will now be accorded in approved cases, in view of the fact that these young men have been bearing the brunt of the battle and deserve well of the nation?

The Under-Secretary of State for Air (Captain Harold Balfour): Post-war requirements cannot be estimated until the end of the war, and consequently the grant of permanent commissions in the Royal Air Force has been suspended except in the case of those officers who had already been provisionally selected when the war began. When selection is resumed after the war, the claims of all suitable officers will be considered.

MILITARY SERVICE (HARDSHIP COMMITTEES).

Mr. Stokes: asked the Minister of Labour whether, in the event of an applicant being dissatisfied with the decision arrived at by the Military Service Hardships Committee, he has any right of appeal to any other body; and, if so, what should the procedure be?

The Minister of Labour (Mr. Ernest Bevin): An applicant who is dissatisfied with the determination arrived at by a Military Service (Hardship) Committee has no right of appeal if the Committee was unanimous and does not give leave to appeal. He has the right to appeal to

the Umpire if the Committee was not unanimous or if it gives leave to appeal. In such cases formal notice of appeal has to be completed by the applicant and returned to the local office within 21 days of the Committee's determination, unless that period is extended by the Minister for special reasons.

Mr. Stokes: Is the Minister aware that many of these investigations are most peremptory, and people are asked only two or three questions and are given no real opportunity to state their case? Even if the opinion of a Committee is unanimous, surely if it has been peremptory a man should have a right of appeal.

Mr. Bevin: I suggest that that does not arise out of the Question. If any case is conducted improperly, I should have notice and be allowed to make inquiries.

Mr. Buchanan: Is the Minister aware that a newspaper paragraph, appearing in a newspaper in which he himself was lately interested, states that all applicants had a right of appeal to the Minister of Labour? Will he take steps to see that this misleading paragraph is corrected?

Mr. Bevin: That newspaper now arrives so late every morning that I have not had time to read it.

Mr. Stokes: In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Adjournment.

HOLIDAYS WITH PAY.

Mr. Hicks: the Minister of Labour the number of people engaged in industry who have a statutory right to holidays with pay under the Holidays with Pay Act, 1938; the number of voluntary schemes approved by him and the number of workpeople involved; the approximate number of workpeople at present excluded from the benefit of holiday with pay; and whether he proposes to take any steps towards establishing the principle throughout the whole of the industry?

Mr. Bevin: I am having the necessary information extracted and will forward it to my hon. Friend as soon as possible. As regards the last part of the Question, I have not up to the present been able to consider the matter in view of war conditions and the tasks which have been thrown on my Department.

Mr. Hicks: Am I to gather from the Minister's reply that he is proceeding with this matter, apart from merely collecting the facts, to see what can be done to introduce a system of holidays with pay in certain industries where no steps have been taken in the matter? Unless they get a spur from the Government, I am afraid it will be a long time before anything is done?

Mr. Bevin: I shall welcome any industry, such as the one represented by the hon. Member, if he will promote the matter, putting up a proposal.

Oral Answers to Questions — AGRICULTURE.

PRICES.

Sir Percy Hurd: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food what changes in the price schedule are to be made to enable farmers to produce to the fullest capacity of the land with a reasonable return for good husbandry?

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. R. S. Hudson): I have been asked to reply. My hon. Friend will no doubt by now have seen the announcement about prices for 1941, which was issued on 30th ultimo.

AGRICULTURAL MORTGAGE CORPORATION.

Mr. De la Bère: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will now consider the reorganisation of the Agricultural Mortgage Corporation, in view of the daily increasing need of working capital in the agricultural industry and the fact that the Agricultural Mortgage Corporation has not, since the outbreak of hostilities, utilised its resources to the full?

Mr. Hudson: I have been asked to reply. I have nothing to add to the reply given to my hon. Friend on 16th July.

Mr. De la Bère: Does not my right hon. Friend realise that the reorganisation of this corporation is vitally necessary, and that it is necessary to reorganise the £50,000,000 outstanding from agricultural borrowers to the banks so that the rate of interest can be reduced? Has not this question been delayed too long, and will not my right hon. Friend give it his close attention?

Mr. Hudson: The credit position is having my close attention, and steps are being taken which will, I hope, clear it up.

FOOD SUPPLIES (EGGS).

Colonel Carver: asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether poultry-producing firms who have hitherto been selling eggs under the national mark grade, and who have all electrical equipment both for testing and grading, will be able to continue using this mark without reference to any specified annual output of eggs?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food (Mr. Boothby): I presume my hon. and gallant Friend refers to the marking of individual eggs by licensed packers in accordance with the provisions of the Home-Produced Eggs (Maximum Prices) Order of the 29th August. In considering applications for licences in this connection, it is necessary to take into account the output capacity of the packing station if the object of the marking scheme is to be achieved, but the Ministry is prepared to consider each application on its merits even if the specified annual output has not been reached.

Mr. G. Griffiths: Is the Minister aware that although the maximum price is 3s. a dozen, people up and down the country are being charged 3s. 6d. and 3s. 9d. a dozen? Can he tell us why this is?

Mr. Boothby: I do not think that arises out of this Question.

Mr. Griffiths: It arises out of the purses of the wives of the workers.

NAVAL STATIONS (LEASES, UNITED STATES).

Mr. Hannah: asked the Prime Minister whether he will give an undertaking that, in leasing naval stations to the United States of America, His Majesty's Government of the United Kingdom will treat with the utmost consideration the wishes of the Colonies concerned?

The Lord Privy Seal (Mr. Attlee): Yes, Sir.

Mr. Hannah: asked the Prime Minister whether he will make it clear that, in arranging leases of naval stations, it is our wish to establish the closest and most permanent co-operation between the United States of America and the nations of the British Empire?

Mr. Attlee: I feel sure that the terms of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister's recent statement sufficiently indicated the importance of the agreement in these respects.

NEWS (RELEASE FOR PUBLICATION).

Captain Anstruther-Gray: asked the Prime Minister who is now responsible for deciding whether the benefit to public morale at home and abroad of releasing news for publication does or does not outweigh the importance to the Fighting Forces of maintaining secrecy?

Mr. Attlee: Where the release of news involves security considerations, the Censorship Division of the Ministry of Information is bound to act in accordance with the instructions it receives from the Service Department or Departments concerned. The responsibility to which my hon. and gallant Friend refers rests therefore with these Departments.

LIFE OF PARLIAMENT.

Mr. Ralph Etherton: asked the Prime Minister whether it is intended to prolong the life of the present Parliament; and, if so, will he make a statement in regard to any proposed legislation?

Mr. Attlee: As already announced, it is intended to introduce legislation for this purpose; but I am not at present in a position to make any further statement in the matter.

GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS (ADMINISTRATION).

Mr. De La Bère: the Prime Minister whether he has considered paragraph 43 of the Tenth Report of the Committee on National Expenditure, of 8th August; and whether he will give effect to the view there expressed by informing all Departments that dilatory measures or decisions, such as have in the past called for drastic changes to be made hurriedly and at the last moment in time of crisis, will in future be treated as proofs of incompetence of the staffs concerned and dealt with accordingly?

Mr. Attlee: The views of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, as he has

already expressed them on a number of occasions, are that, as the Committee say, bold measures are essential to success, and he has already given instructions that every possible step must be taken to avoid administrative delays, to accelerate decisions and to expedite executive action.

Mr. De La Bére: Is not it dangerously unwise for Government Departments of any sort to sit still? Can they not get a further move on?

TRANSFERRED UNITED STATES DESTROYERS (NAMES).

Mr. Wedgwood: asked the Prime Minister whether he will allow the 50 destroyers from America to retain their original American names provided that no objection to this course is taken by Washington?

Sir P. Hurd: asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the spirit in which the Colonies affected are co-operating in the new Anglo-American arrangement, some at least of the American destroyers will be named after these cooperating Colonies?

The First Lord of the Admiralty (Mr. A. V. Alexander): I have been asked to reply. I am grateful to the hon. Members for their suggestions. Since, by agreement between the two Governments, the original American names will not be used, the choice of new ones has been carefully considered, and I am now able to inform the House of the names which His Majesty the King has been pleased to approve for the first flotilla. These are:

"Churchill" (Leader).
"Caldwell."
"Cameron."
"Castleton."
"Chelsea."
"Chesterfield."
"Clare."
"Campbeltown."

Hon. Members will observe that these are all names of towns or villages common to the United Kingdom and the United States of America. Names on a similar basis for the other American destroyers will shortly be given, and these will include a special choice of a few names which will be common to the West Indies as well.

BRITISH SUBJECTS (EXIT PERMITS).

Mr. Bellenger: asked the Prime Minister whether any action is to be taken in respect of those individuals of British nationality, particularly those of military age, who have evaded their duties as citizens, by voluntarily evacuating themselves to neutral countries overseas?

Mr. Attlee: I have no reason to suppose that many British subjects are evading their duties in the manner suggested. Departure from this country is subject to control, under the exit permit system; and, in the case of British subjects liable to military service, exit permits are granted only after consultation with the Ministry of Labour, who are responsible for the administration of the National Service (Armed Forces) Act.

Mr. Bellenger: Is any check kept on these individuals, and are these permits issued for a period, so that they can be brought back if necessary, if they decide to evade their obligations as citizens?

Mr. Attlee: In cases of persons of military age, exit permits are sometimes granted, subject to conditions designed to secure that the liability to military service will not be evaded.

WAR DAMAGE (COMPENSATION).

Mr. Glenvil Hall: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is now in a position to indicate the extent to which the Regulations have been relaxed in order to permit local officers of assistance boards to make payments of compensation where war damage has not exceeded £5?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Sir Kingsley Wood): As I informed the hon. Member on 22nd August, I have reconsidered the arrangement whereby, hitherto, immediate payments for war damage to essential household furniture and personal clothing have been limited to cases where the total damage exceeds £5. Instructions are now being given to assistance board officers to admit claims in excess of £1.

FOREIGN CURRENCY TRANS- ACTIONS (PROSECUTION).

Mr. Glenvil Hall: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether his atten-

tion has been called to the fact that, in the course of a recent case against Mr. Leon Pandeli Argenti, the learned magistrate called attention to the unusual course pursued by the Bank of England in relation to the defendant; and whether the Bank of England acted in this instance with the full approval of the Treasury?

Mr. Ellis Smith: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) why the Bank of England allowed the account of Leon Pandeli Argenti to be released after having been blocked; to what extent it was drawn on, and currency sent abroad; who was responsible for the procedure; and what steps have been taken to deal with those responsible for this matter, and to prevent a repetition of transactions of the kind involved:
(2) whether he is satisfied with the Bank of England machinery and the way it functions, in view of the recent foreign currency prosecution; and whether he will have a White Paper issued showing the names and amounts involved of transactions of this kind through the Bank of England since 1st August, 1939?

Sir K. Wood: Mr. Argenti had, at the beginning of 1939, taken the steps necessary to sever his connection with his London firm, the resignation taking effect on 31st August, 1939, and had arranged to set up in business in Belgium and to purchase a part interest in a factory there. In connection with the purchase of the factory, he applied for permission, in September, 1939, to retain and sell between £2,000 and £2,500 in Belgian securities, which was granted under the regulations then in force. Mr. Argenti took up his residence in Belgium, in accordance with the intention he had expressed before the war, without having any intention to return to this country. He was, therefore, allowed to operate upon his sterling balances, since, as hon. Members are aware, sterling balances of foreign residents are not blocked. In fact, he was treated in accordance with the ordinary arrangements in force at the time. He returned to this country after the German invasion of Belgium. None of the transactions referred to have any connection with the offence for which he was prosecuted, and I venture to doubt whether the learned magistrate was fully seized of the facts relating to them. I may add that, under a regulation made last July, it is not now possible for any


person who has been in this country at any time since the beginning of the war to claim to exercise the privileges of a non-resident.

Mr. Hall: Do I understand that this man was wrongly convicted?

Sir K. Wood: No, Sir; I was careful to point out that none of these transactions has any connection with the offence for which he was prosecuted.

Mr. Hall: My Question refers to the offence for which he was prosecuted, and I would like an answer to it.

Sir K. Wood: Perhaps my hon. Friend will put down a further Question.

Mr. Ellis Smith: Do I understand that the Chancellor answered Question 57, and, if so, can he say why he has not replied to the request that a White Paper should be issued showing the amounts and names involved?

Sir K. Wood: I do not see any reason to do that. I think that my hon. Friend's suggestion was based on a misconception of this case.

PURCHASE TAX.

Mr. Liddall: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the estimated cost of collection of the proposed sales tax, and what steps are proposed to prevent evasion; is it proposed that the retailer should add his profit to the total cost of the article taxed, including the tax; and, if not, what provision is made for recompensing the retailer on bad or damaged stock on which he has paid tax and is unable to collect from the public?

Sir K. Wood: As I informed the House in the course of my Budget Speech, it is not expected that the Purchase Tax will be costly to administer or that any appreciable number of additional officials or staff will be required. To prevent evasion, verification of the quarterly returns made by registered persons will be instituted. As regards the question of the retailer's profit, I would refer to the statement made by my right hon. Friend the Financial Secretary on 25th July, when he explained that it would be illegal for a retailer to charge any percentage on the tax itself. No provision is made for recompensing the retailer on bad or damaged stock and in this respect the tax

must follow the purchase price as a normal trading risk which he would meet out of his gross profit.

Mr. J. J. Davidson: Surely the right hon. Gentleman's Department have by this time estimated the cost of the administration of the Purchase Tax, and cannot the right hon. Gentleman state what it is?

Sir K. Wood: No, Sir, but I think it will be small. I cannot give an estimate at present.

Mr. Davidson: Does that mean that the Minister has no estimate of the cost?

Sir K. Wood: No, Sir, but I made a statement on that matter in the course of the Debates.

Mr. R. C. Morrison: As a good deal of this tax will have to be paid by people who have lost their homes, does not the right hon. Gentleman think that it might be postponed?

Mr. Liddall: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether it is proposed that wholesalers and manufacturers shall pay the proposed sales tax on the value of the goods invoiced, or on the amount they actually receive from their customers; and whether he will state, as no tax is payable on second-hand goods, what definition of second-hand goods does he propose to apply?

Sir K. Wood: The value prescribed by the Act is the net cash delivered price of the goods, and tax is payable on that value. There is no exemption for sales of second-hand goods. If a wholesale merchant sells them in the course of his business he will have to charge tax on them.

Mr. Liddall: Does not my right hon. Friend appreciate that, in order to save himself a great deal of difficulty in future, he should have the meaning of "second-hand" determined?

Sir K. Wood: I do not think that this should give rise to serious difficulty.

IMMINENCE OF AIR RAID (SUSPENSION OF SITTING).

Mr. Speaker: I am informed that an air raid is now considered to be imminent, and I will accordingly suspend the Sitting.

The House resumed after an interval of 22 minutes.

BANK FOR INTERNATIONAL SETTLEMENTS.

Mr. Parker: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware that, in the Report of the Bank for International Settlements, dated 27th May, 1940, the names of Mr. Montagu Norman, Governor of the Bank of England, and Dr. Funk, German Economic Minister, are included together amongst the list of directors; and as it is not desirable that at the present time Mr. Norman should be listed in a public document as a colleague of a German cabinet minister, he will take the necessary steps to terminate this country's connection with the Bank for International Settlements?

Mr. Craven-Ellis: asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is satisfied that the enemy gain no advantage from the association of the Bank of England with the Bank for International Settlements; and whether, in view of the public concern about the Bank of England's association with this bank, which is now controlled by representatives of enemy countries, he will take steps to ensure that all connection with the Bank for International Settlements is revised?

Sir K. Wood: I am satisfied that the enemy gain no advantage from the association of the Bank of England with the Bank for International Settlements, the administration of which is now controlled by its President, Mr. Thomas H. McKittrick, a United States citizen. The report referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Mr. Parker) is in the first person and is signed by the President of the Bank. I need hardly say that it contains nothing objectionable to this country. No meetings of the Board of Directors have been held since the outbreak of war. If any such meetings were proposed, I should be made aware of the date and circumstances and no British directors would attend without agreement with me. I do not on balance see any sufficient advantage to this country in formally terminating connection with the bank; I think this step would be more likely to help the enemy than ourselves.

Mr. Shinwell: Is it desirable to retain this informal association between Mr. Montagu Norman and Dr. Funk, and, if the arrangement which was previously operative is now inoperative, could not this association be brought to an end?

Sir K. Wood: No, Sir, I do not think so, because as I have said, I think there are advantages to this country in retaining the connection. We have a little money there.

Mr. Stokes: Are we to understand from the right hon. Gentleman that Mr. McKittrick has no connection at all with the German bank directors?

Sir K. Wood: No, I did not say anything of the sort. I said that the report which was referred to was a report made by the President.

Mr. Gallacher: Does the right hon. Gentleman remember the words of the Prime Minister, that the gold sent through this bank by Montagu Norman to Germany, would come back to this country in the form of bombs; and in view of the correctness of that prophecy is it not about time to put an end to this bank?

Sir K. Wood: I have already said we have some interest there.

CHINA (MEDICAL SUPPLIES).

Mr. Mander: asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he has yet received a reply from the Japanese Government concerning the suggestion made by His Majesty's Ambassador at Tokyo that the importation of oil for the transport of medical supplies in China should he made available to the Chinese Red Cross?

The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Butler): The Japanese Government have asked for certain further details before giving a definite reply, and it is hoped to communicate these details to them shortly.

Mr. Mander: In view of the very reasonable nature of this request, will my right hon. Friend take every possible step to press for an early answer?

Mr. Butler: Yes, certainly.

OLD AGE PENSIONS.

Mr. Thorne: the Minister of Health what number of applicants for supplementary grants to old age pensioners for the county borough of West Ham have been made; what numbers have been granted; what numbers refused; and the lowest grant and the highest grant made?

Mr. M. MacDonald: It is not possible to supply figures in respect of local government administrative districts, but the Stratford area of the Assistance Board covers the greater part of the county borough of West Ham. In that area up to 16th August, 4,161 applications for supplementary pensions were received; 3,175 supplementary pensions were awarded, 862 were refused or the applications were withdrawn and the remainder were under consideration at that date. Detailed statistics on an area basis, of the amounts granted are not available. Generally, however, it can be said that the amounts vary from 1s. to 30s. or more.

EXPORT TRADE (TEXTILES).

Mr. Hammersley: asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the export trade in textiles is being considerably hampered by restrictions in credit on the part of the acceptance banks, and will he take steps to see that the normal credit facilities on which our export trade so largely depends shall be maintained?

Sir A. Duncan: Where no more than ordinary commercial risks are involved, I am not aware of any difficulty in obtaining the necessary credit, and exporters can always avail themselves of the facilities offered by Export Credits Guarantee Department.

Mr. Hammersley: Is my right hon. Friend aware that the curtailment to which I refer is a curtailment of the normal acceptance of credits; is he further aware that this curtailment of credit is doing injury to his export drive; and if I draw his attention to particular cases, will he do what he can to remedy them?

Sir A. Duncan: I shall be very glad to look into any cases which my hon. Friend brings before me.

NAVY, ARMY AND AIR FORCE INSTITUTE.

Mr. Lunn: the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware of the complaints by many service men at the prices charged for articles of necessity purchased in the Navy, Army and Air Force Institute canteens; how these prices compare with prices for the same articles

in Young Men's Christian Association and other canteens and in ordinary shops; what are the profits made by the Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes in the last six months; and to what purpose are they devoted?

Mr. Eden: The guiding principle laid down is that the prices charged in Navy, Army and Air Force Institutes should correspond to the average retail prices prevailing in local shops and stores for the same quality of article, and my information is that this principle is being closely followed. The same principle is applicable to the prices charged in the institutes of the Young Men's Christian Association and other philanthropic bodies trading on War Department land. With regard to the last two parts of the Question, I am informed that the accounts for the past six months are not yet complete, but considerable losses were, I understand, incurred during operations in France. As has been previously stated, the profits of this corporation are returned to the Services in the form of cash rebates and other amenities such as entertainments, furnishing of institutes and sports grants.

Mr. Lunn: Has the right hon. Gentleman had no complaints from men about some of these canteens; and are there different arrangements in regard to charges in different areas?

Mr. Eden: I have had some complaints. Perhaps my hon. Friend would speak to me afterwards about the matter.

Mr. Davidson: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that other institutions which cater for the Services are compelled to buy furniture and other articles from the N.A.A.F.I. at N.A.A.F.I. prices and that it is their considered opinion that they could buy these things cheaper in the shops if they were allowed to do so; and will the Minister investigate that aspect of the question?

Mr. Eden: Perhaps my hon. Friend will give me particulars.

Major Cazalet: What is the final court of appeal on these questions? Is it the Army Council or the N.A.A.F.I. directors?

Mr. Eden: The N.A.A.F.I. has an organisation of its own, representative of the three Service Departments.

Mr. Lyons: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider making public the accounts of the directors of the N.A.A.F.I.?

Mr. Crowder: Could we have an answer to that question?

Mr. Eden: It is not a matter for me alone.

Mr. Davidson: Is it not a matter for the Government if profits are being made out of the men in the Services?

HOUSE OF COMMONS (PROTECTION OF WINDOWS).

Sir W. Davison: On a point of order. With regard to the removal of the leaded glass windows in the Chamber and their replacement by sheets of plain glass without wire, may I ask whether this is not a breach of the Home Office Order that in public buildings and all buildings where people congregate, the windows should always be protected by half-inch wire netting?

Mr. Speaker: This is the first I have seen of the change to which the hon. Member draws attention.

Sir W. Davison: Should not the Home Office regulations be applied to the House of Commons for the reasons which are stated in the Order?

Mr. Speaker: I will make inquiries.

Mr. Bellenger: May I ask, Mr. Speaker, whether the defect in your vision is due to the fact that you have a very substantial canopy over your head?

Mr. Denville: As this is a matter affecting the safety of Members of this House and one which should be attended to, may I ask whether the regulations which are applied to places of public amusement, should not also be applied in the case of the windows of this House?

NEW MEMBERS SWORN.

James Henry Wootton-Davies, Esquire, for the County of Lancaster (Heywood and Radcliffe Division).

Pilot-Officer Sir Edward George Cadogan, for the Borough of Bolton.

SECRET SESSION (JUDICIAL PROCEEDINGS).

4.18 p.m.

The Attorney-General (Sir Donald Somervell): I beg to move,
That Mr. Louis Arnold Abraham, a Senior Clerk in the Journal Office, have leave to attend and give evidence before the Magistrate at Bow Street and afterwards at the Central Criminal Court, and there to produce the Journal of the House for the 30th day of July last, on the hearing and trial of a charge of the contravention of Regulation 3 (2) of the Defence (General) Regulations, 1939, about to be preferred against one Roy Townsend Leonard Day.
The Regulation referred to is the Regulation which makes it an offence to report or purport to report the proceedings of a Secret Session. It is necessary for the prosecution on those proceedings to prove the Resolution of the House making that Session a Secret Session. According to the law and practice of Parliament, evidence of this kind can only be given by one of the Clerks of the House if the House give leave for him to give that evidence. The Motion which I have moved is in the ordinary form and has been adopted by the House on many previous occasions.

Question put, and agreed to.

WAR SITUATION.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."—[Captain Margesson.]

4.20 p.m.

The Prime Minister (Mr. Churchill): I do not feel it necessary to make any lengthy statement to the House to-day upon the general war position. Practically all the facts not of a secret nature have already been made public. The advance of the Italian army from Libya is in progress. The two British platoons which have been holding Sollum have been withdrawn. Sharp fighting is taking place upon the desert flank between the armoured vehicles of both sides. The enemy is still some distance from our position of resistance. We must see what happens.
The deployment of the German barges and ships in preparation for the invasion of Great Britain and Ireland continues steadily, and we must expect that he will make an attempt at what he judges to be the best opportunity. All our preparations must therefore be maintained

in a state of vigilance. The process of waiting, keyed up to concert pitch day after day, is apt after a while to lose its charm of novelty. There is no doubt that it imposes a heavy strain upon all concerned, but we must not under-rate the damage inflicted upon the enemy, who also has to wait, by the very heavy and prolonged nightly bombings upon his concentrations of ships and upon all the focal points of his assembly of troops. Undoubtedly serious injury has been done to his ships and barges, and meanwhile our own strength, I am able to assure the House, develops steadily by land, by sea, and above all in the air. Sunday's action was the most brilliant and fruitful of any fought upon a large scale up to that date by the fighters of the Royal Air Force. The figures have already been made public. To the best of my belief—and I have made searching inquiries and taken several cross checks —these figures are not in any way exaggerated. Neither side has yet employed more than a portion of its forces, but there are good reasons for believing at the present time that very grievous inroads are being made upon the enemy's superiority of numbers, and we may await the decision of this prolonged air battle with sober but increasing confidence.
The German attacks upon the civil population have been concentrated mainly upon London, in the hopes of terrorising its citizens into submission or to throw them into confusion, and, of course, in the silly idea that they will put pressure upon the Government to make peace. The deliberate and repeated attacks upon Buckingham Palace and upon the persons of our beloved King and Queen are also intended, apart from their general barbarity, to have an unsettling effect upon public opinion. They have, of course, the opposite effect. They unite the King and Queen to their people by new and sacred bonds of common danger, and they steel the hearts of all to the stern and unrelenting prosecution of the war against so foul a foe.
I gave the House when I last addressed them the casualty figures up to the end of August and without prejudice to our habit of publishing the figure, monthly. I may now mention that during the first half of September about 2,000 civilians—men, women and children—have been killed, and about 8,000 wounded by air bombardment. Four-fifths of these casual-


ties have occurred in London. Many hospitals and churches and public monuments have been damaged, but the injury to our war-making capacity has been surprisingly small. We are only now beginning to get the increased flow of production from the great programmes which were started on the outbreak of the war, and it is very agreeable to see that the increases are maintained over so wide a field in spite of the enemy's fire. To show how indiscriminate and wanton is the enemy's attack, one has only to compare the figures of civilian casualties in the first fortnight of this month with the military casualties. There were, as I have said, 10,000 civilian casualties from air attack, but only some 250 of these occurred in all the Fighting Forces.
The air-raid precautions organisation in all its branches has proved its efficiency, and the greatest discipline and devotion have been shown by all. The fire brigades arc, of course, conspicuous, but in paying tribute to them there must be no disparagement to all the other forms of service which have been faithfully and punctiliously discharged. Of course, the task of preserving the health and well-being of this enormous community in the Thames Valley, exceeding 8,000,000 souls, living under artificial conditions of civilisation, and of supplying them with food and all other necessities and of making provision for those whose homes have been destroyed or who have had to be evacuated—all this and much else have, as the House will realise, cast a strain upon the machinery of government which calls for ceaseless exertion by all authorities concerned. I am glad to say that this heavy and intricate task is being efficiently and successfully discharged, and our whole system of life and labour is being rapidly adapted to conditions hitherto unknown to modern society. Constant adjustments have to be made and defects remedied in the light of experience. As I said last time, a great deal of our progress must be by trial and error. We have to feel our way and do our best to meet each defect as it reveals itself.
I had hoped, as I said when I last spoke during the week that has passed, to promulgate some new rules about air-raid warnings, but the intensification of the air attack has made it difficult to draw precise conclusions, and, in spite of my

desire to make good my undertaking to the House, I feel that it is wiser for the moment to allow the process of local adaptation to run its course. Broadly speaking, our plan must be to use the siren, which, it may be noted, has been cut in two, as an alert and not as an alarm, and to have a system of highly trained what I may call Jim Crows or look-out men, who will give the alarm when immediate danger is expected at any point. Upon this basis everyone must endeavour to carry on his work and see that output and the public services do not suffer or suffer only the minimum interruption. No doubt, we shall work up to a much higher standard than we have at present attained in many respects, but I feel it better to proceed empirically than, at this moment, to try to make precise conditions; because, after all, we must expect that very much more intense examples of air fighting will be experienced in future than we have vet seen.
There are some matters connected with our arrangements under air attack which I should prefer to discuss in private. I must remind the House that every word spoken in public Session can be telegraphed all over the world; and that there is no reason why we should keep the enemy informed of the details of our arrangements, and thus enable him to inflict the maximum injury upon us. We do not receive any similar information from him about his way of life; although, I am sure, our military staffs would he very much convenienced thereby. There are several things that I wish to say to the House, and I dare say there are many things that hon. Members would like to say to the Government. Therefore, I propose that we should now move into Secret Session, and I declare to you, Mr. Speaker that, casting my eyes around, I spy strangers.

Mr. Shinwell: Is it clear that this Motion applies only to this day's Sitting?

The Prime Minister: indicated assent.

SECRET SESSION.

Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER, pursuant to Standing Order No. 89, put the Question:

"That strangers be ordered to withdraw."

Question agreed to.

Strangers withdrew accordingly.

The following record of the subsequent proceedings is taken from the Votes and Proceedings:

Resolved, That the remainder of this day's Sitting be a Secret Session.—(The Prime Minister.)

ADJOURNMENT.

Question again proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Resolved, That this House do now adjourn.—(Captain Margesson.)

Adjourned accordingly at Nine Minutes after Six o'clock.

[The following report of the Secret Session was issued under the authority of Mr. SPEAKER:

"The House went into Secret Session, and a discussion took place on the future Sittings of the House. The House decided to meet at regular intervals, but that the dates and times should not be specified."]